watervole: (radiolarian)
Judith Proctor ([personal profile] watervole) wrote2006-01-30 06:24 pm

DNA, men and plants

Google has failed me. I know men and chimpanzees share over 98% of their DNA, but what's the % overlap for men and plants? I must have read it somewhere, becacuse I have a lingering memory that the overlap is a lot higher than you might guess owing to the sequences for basic metabolic processes.

Can anyone help?
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[identity profile] cdybedahl.livejournal.com 2006-01-30 07:00 pm (UTC)(link)
75% is the number that usually gets quoted. I can't find any kind of source, and I've been told by a biologist friends that the percentage depends very, very much on exactly how you count.

[identity profile] reapermum.livejournal.com 2006-01-30 07:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Interview with Steve Jones here http://www.science-spirit.org/article_detail.php?article_id=181 says a banana has 30% human genes.

[identity profile] lonemagpie.livejournal.com 2006-01-30 07:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Off the top of my head it's around 70 I think - all carbon-based life on the planet shares that much.

[identity profile] johnrw.livejournal.com 2006-01-30 08:37 pm (UTC)(link)
The percentage varies depending upon which plant group gets used as the metrestick. But broadly you're looking at 65% to 80%, There are fungi out there with over ten times the DNA of any animal, which is usually ignored when running comparisons like this.

What also skews the numbers is whether you're counting total intracellular DNA or Chromosomal DNA. Mitochondria can account for 10% of DNA in some cases and given that their function remains the same their DNA is highly conserved.
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[identity profile] watervole.livejournal.com 2006-02-01 12:29 pm (UTC)(link)
THe only vaguely scientific article I've managed to find says 30%, but my gut instinct is higher. I want a figure that includes all the mitochondria and junk DNA (there's reasons why they count in this particular case) - if you can find anything reputable that actually gives a figure, it'd be helpful.

[identity profile] communicator.livejournal.com 2006-01-30 11:41 pm (UTC)(link)
I think it's about a third, so you've got quite a spread of opinion

[identity profile] pickledginger.livejournal.com 2006-02-10 07:40 am (UTC)(link)
Hmm. I tried Science (http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/search?src=hw&site_area=sci&fulltext=humans+and+plants%2C+dna%2C+percent), and can't help thinking I could find the answer there, if only I asked the question correctly. It could be that the archives of a botany journal or a journal of plant genetics would be more helpful, though.

A lot of it depends on how one does the calculation. For instance, humans and other primates all use the same base pairs. I don't recall seeing mitochondrial and nuclear DNA lumped in together.
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[identity profile] watervole.livejournal.com 2006-02-10 08:24 am (UTC)(link)
For this particular purpose, it's valid to include mitochondria and all the stuff that tends to be in common. (I want to compare a human with a plant of Earth origin, and then compare with an alien - just to emphasise how much DNA is shared between apparantly unrelated species on Earth compared to something that doesn't originate from Earth)

[identity profile] pickledginger.livejournal.com 2006-02-10 08:39 am (UTC)(link)
That sounds fascinating. Would that I knew where to start!

(Anonymous) 2006-02-10 08:33 am (UTC)(link)
I had a little more luck using ask.com (http://www.ask.com/web?q=what+percent+of+DNA+do+humans+and+plants+share%3F&qsrc=0&o=0).

* "We share approximately 30 percent of our DNA with mushrooms. (www.sportstouch.com/ArticleMaitakeMushroomandHealing.htm)"

* "Some visitors [to the Marian Koshland Science Museum of the National Academy of Sciences] might be surprised to find out that humans share 44 percent of their DNA with fruit flies, as much as 92 percent with mice and other mammals, and 18 percent with a weed. (www.sportstouch.com/ArticleMaitakeMushroomandHealing.htm)"

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re: the chimp thing (interesting despite the anti-evolution source (http://www.harunyahya.com/refuted10.php).)

A news story reported by CNN.com, entitled "Humans, chimps more different than thought," reports the following:

There are more differences between a chimpanzee and a human being than once believed, according to a new genetic study.

Biologists have long held that the genes of chimps and humans are about 98.5 percent identical. But Roy Britten, a biologist at the California Institute of Technology, said in a study published this week that a new way of comparing the genes shows that the human and chimp genetic similarity is only about 95 percent.

Britten based this on a computer program that compared 780,000 of the 3 billion base pairs in the human DNA helix with those of the chimp. He found more mismatches than earlier researchers had, and concluded that at least 3.9 percent of the DNA bases were different.

This led him to conclude that there is a fundamental genetic difference between the species of about 5 percent.1
New Scientist, a leading science magazine and a strong supporter of Darwinism, reported the following on the same subject in an article titled "Human-chimp DNA difference trebled":

We are more unique than previously thought, according to new comparisons of human and chimpanzee DNA. It has long been held that we share 98.5 per cent of our genetic material with our closest relatives. That now appears to be wrong. In fact, we share less than 95 per cent of our genetic material, a three-fold increase in the variation between us and chimps. 2

1. http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/09/24/humans.chimps.ap/index.html
2. http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992833


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OT but nifty: Smithsonian Institution article on The First Farmers (http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Publications/ZooGoer/2004/4/antfarmers.cfm): ants, termites and beetles!

[identity profile] pickledginger.livejournal.com 2006-02-10 08:36 am (UTC)(link)
Ooops ... apologies. I started working on a second computer, when the first hit a very slooooow page, and neglected to log back in!

[identity profile] pickledginger.livejournal.com 2006-02-10 08:42 am (UTC)(link)
Apologies also for the bad links here and there, where I've put parentheses rather than angle brackets. Perhaps I should have taken the shutting off of the overhead lights as a hint that it was time to go home!

[identity profile] pickledginger.livejournal.com 2006-02-10 08:35 am (UTC)(link)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Googling again: plant genetics + human + DNA (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=plant+genetics%2C+human%2C+DNA)
yields a number of very dense but promising resources.

This, for instance (http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=83) (lighter than most): Below is a table with genome size (number of base pairs), number of chromosomes, and number of genes for several species. As you can see, there is almost no connection between the size of the genome and the complexity of a plant or animal.

Species / Number of Chromosomes / Number of Genes / Size of Genome (million base pairs)
Human 46 ~25,000 3,300
Chicken 78 ~23,000 1,000
Fruit Fly 8 ~14,000 165
Butterfly ~380 unknown 124,900
Wall cress 10 ~25,000 125
Corn 20 ~59,000 2,500
Rice 24 45-56,000 441


* This list of resources in genetic mapping and linkage analysis (http://bioresearch.ac.uk/nb/c5272de5be6fc0cdf1153bbbf6ea7394.html) is as promising as anything so far. If all else fails, perhaps you could post a request for references on the bionet.genome.chromosomes (http://www.bio.net/hypermail/biochrom/) newsgroup?

* A nice introduction to genetic analysis (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/About/primer/mapping.html)here, if you need something explained in plain(ish) English.

Have you any particular plant in mind? A lot more is known about some than about others, though very few have been fully sequenced. Sequencing of the maize genome (http://mednews.wustl.edu/news/page/normal/6180.html?emailID=7210), for instance, is just getting under way:

Maize is found in thousands of products in supermarkets and stores. The maize genome's 2.5 billion base pairs in 10 chromosomes make it nearly as long as the human genome, which has 2.9 billion base pairs in 23 chromosomes. When completed, maize will be the largest plant genome sequenced.

Although smaller than the human genome, the maize genome is estimated to contain approximately twice as many genes: 50,000 to 60,000 genes, while the human genome has about 26,000. The maize genome also has large repetitive stretches and regions devoid of genes that will make sequencing challenging.


* This Geocities article (http://www.geocities.com/geneinfo/facts/engineerfr.html) has a few good bits: ... plant cells are, not surprisingly, very different from those of humans. First, the nature of plant genetics makes it easier to insert and remove genes from the genome. In addition, plant seeds are accustomed to being exposed to harsh environmental conditions. Thus, plant cells can be relatively easily manipulated in the laboratory and then used to grow genetically modified crops. Genetic manipulation of some laboratory animals, such as flies and mice, is also routinely used in research.

In contrast, the technology available to manipulate human genes and embryos is not well developed. The human genome is unusually resistant to manipulation, so we currently do not have technology with allows the efficient removal and insertion of genes in human cells. Also, if it were ever to be done, human genetic engineering would have to be carried out on a zygote or very small embryo in a laboratory. Because the normal environment of a developing human embryo in the womb is very sheltered and controlled, the embryos are extremely sensitive to any handling. Currently, very small human embryos are handled in infertility clinics and in limited cases of screening for genetic disease. Even with the aid of powerful drugs and implantation of multiple embryos, the survival rate in these cases is still quite low. Given the difficulties in manipulation of human genes and the delicate nature of human embryos, our technology is far from being able to produce a genetically engineered human. ...

[identity profile] pickledginger.livejournal.com 2006-02-10 08:35 am (UTC)(link)
* "Genomics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genomics)" might be a better search word than genetics or genetic. Wikipedia is to be taken with a grain of salt, of course, and much checking of references, but this entry includes a chart, "Genetic similarity," that may be what you're looking for:

It is often stated that a particular organism shares X percent of its DNA with humans. This number indicates the percentage of base pairs that are identical between the two species. Here is a list of genetic similarity to humans, with sources, where known.

These numbers were found in various secondary sources, and were likely derived from differing methodologies (such as DNA-DNA hybridization or sequence alignment) which might give different results applied to the same pair of species. Therefore, they should be regarded only as rough approximations.

Species / Similarity / Source
Human / 99.9% / quoted by U.S.A. President Clinton, Jan 2000, State of the Union address; also, Human Genome Project
[Human] / 100% / identical twins
Chimpanzee / 98.4% . sources: Americans for Medical Progress; Jon Entine in the San Francisco Examiner
[Chimpanzee] 98.7% / Richard Mural of Celera Genomics, quoted on MSNBC
Bonobo / equal to chimpanzee /
Gorilla / 98.38% / based on study of intergenic nonrepetitive DNA in Am J Hum Genet. (2001) Feb;682:444-56
Mouse / 98% / source: Americans for Medical Progress
[Mouse] / 85% / comparing all protein coding sequences, NHGRI
Dog / 95% / Jon Entine in the San Francisco Examiner
C. elegans / 74% / Jon Entine in the San Francisco Examiner
Banana / 50% / source: Americans for Medical Progress
Daffodil / 35% / Steven Rose in The Guardian 22 January 2004


(Note the varying numbers for human-mouse similarity, depending on the method of comparison used; this underlines the importance of defining "share." Note also the varying sources -- some not particularly authoritative -- for the info presented. The apparent links in the table text, btw, are not to the alleged sources, but only to Wikipedia articles on, for instance, The Grauniad.)
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[identity profile] watervole.livejournal.com 2006-02-14 11:41 am (UTC)(link)
Many thanks for all the hunting. The plant I particularly had in mind was Chinese Juiper, though I suspect any woody plant would be in the correct ballpark.

(I'm amazed by the size of the genome of a butterfly! - I guess it's the need for two completely different bodies that does it)